In this insightful episode, Andy and Paul reflect on their recent project, delving into the complexities and vital importance of pressure in irrigation systems, especially pertaining to a vast green rooftop. While the specifics of their project remain confidential, the co-hosts openly discuss the general scope, centered around the deployment of wireless sensors for data analytics, enabling the client to monitor conditions of the landscape more accurately.
They outline the project's challenges, from the discovery of low water pressure on the rooftop to the absence of water meters and pressure gauges, illuminating how their technology provides the client with crucial insights previously obscured. Emphasizing the critical role of monitoring, they illustrate how their wireless sensors and dashboard platform reveal the "vital signs" of water infrastructure, much like a medical check-up reveals the health of a human body.
Paul and Andy share anecdotes from their fieldwork, where they identified a significant leak due to a mainline break, likely caused by inadequate winterization. The revelation of this break underscored the hidden nature of water problems and the need for meticulous observation and the right tools to diagnose and manage such issues effectively.
The episode pivots to a discussion about data collection, particularly the innovative use of wireless technology. They replaced a failing wired system with a more robust wireless one, including soil moisture sensors and water meters with both analog and digital capabilities. This transition from wired to wireless signifies a substantial improvement in monitoring and managing the system, with the potential for real-time insights and rapid problem detection.
Throughout the podcast, the hosts compare an irrigation system's vital signs to human vital signs, with pressure transducers acting like a blood pressure monitor, providing real-time feedback on system health. They argue that knowing the pressure in an irrigation system is paramount, even more crucial than flow rates in some cases, as it can instantly signal issues such as leaks or system malfunctions.
A central theme is the emphasis on the importance of starting diagnostics at the water source rather than the controller and the need for constant pressure monitoring to ensure system integrity. This approach could potentially transform maintenance routines and system diagnostics in the industry.
Key takeaways and insights include:
- The "vital signs" of irrigation systems, akin to those in medical practice, are crucial for diagnosis and management.
- The conversion from wired to wireless systems represents a significant step forward in monitoring capabilities.
- Real-time pressure monitoring can reveal issues that flow monitoring might not, highlighting the need for comprehensive diagnostic tools.
- The hidden nature of water systems necessitates the adoption of visual and digital tools for accurate assessment.
Andy and Paul's dialogue underscores their commitment to innovation and their continual learning process, as they seek to enhance their understanding and management of irrigation systems. Their hope is to develop tools that will become industry standards, ensuring that businesses can effectively manage their water systems.
As the episode concludes, the sense of partnership and mutual respect between the two is palpable, as they look forward to their next project with anticipation. Listeners are left with a deeper appreciation for the intricacies of irrigation systems and the evolving technologies that monitor and manage them.
Key Points:
- The importance of pressure in monitoring irrigation and plumbing systems.
- Discovery of a significant leak due to a mainline break on the project's large green rooftop.
- Transition from a problematic wired system to an innovative wireless one.
- The utility of wireless soil moisture sensors and dual water meters for both analog and digital monitoring.
- Comparison of irrigation system diagnostics to checking human vital signs, emphasizing the crucial role of pressure transducers.
- Importance of starting system diagnostics at the water source for accurate assessment and management.
- The discovery that booster pumps were cycling without effectively raising the pressure, affecting rooftop irrigation performance.
- The podcast's emphasis on continuous innovation and the application of new diagnostic tools to improve industry standards.
[00:00:00] Let's just share a little piece of some of the brain share that we had in regards to thinking about
[00:00:08] irrigation systems and water infrastructure
[00:00:10] Like the like the human body. What do you think? Should we share a little bit of that?
[00:00:14] I think so. I think it's vital to share because we learn and then when we learn you want to be able to share with others
[00:00:21] some of the knowledge you gain and when you when you have something like a
[00:00:24] Pressure transducer that you can see remotely from anywhere in the world
[00:00:27] You now have a visual into the performance of the pipe for the water and the pipe
[00:00:33] But you didn't have before all of a sudden there's a tool
[00:00:37] And you can use the tool to assess the health of
[00:00:40] the system much like you can check your blood pressure
[00:00:46] When you go in to the doctor the first thing they're gonna do is start with the blood pressure
[00:00:51] That might actually explain some of the other symptoms that somebody may be having. That's right. That's right exactly
[00:00:57] So what we really come up with our brain share is you know
[00:01:00] What are the key elements or the vital signs of an irrigation system that we need to diagnose initially when you first get to a property?
[00:01:09] If you are an irrigation professional old or new who designs installs or maintains
[00:01:20] high-end residential commercial or municipal properties and you want to use technology to improve your business
[00:01:27] To get a leg up on your competition
[00:01:29] Even if you're an old-school irrigator from the days of hydraulic systems this show is for you
[00:01:37] Oh
[00:01:38] Man Paul what a couple few days, but we learned a lot just look at my notes late-night notes brain share notes and
[00:01:48] Man we got we're developing a couple themes. I think around this pressure concept. It's been any more time
[00:01:56] Realizing the importance of pressure on the irrigation system
[00:02:00] Well, it's not even just the irrigation system that we're we're seeing the importance of it
[00:02:05] It's just on the plumbing system in general, but because we're seeing it through the lens of
[00:02:10] Irrigation you really see the vitality of the importance
[00:02:17] Yeah, so I'll step back for a second because here we are in the Delta sky club in Detroit
[00:02:24] Trying to relax and
[00:02:26] Maybe we should give a little background to the audience on what we did this week
[00:02:32] We can't really say the names of the project, but
[00:02:37] Maybe we should speak a little bit to the objective of our
[00:02:42] Technology deployment. What do you think I?
[00:02:44] Agree with that. Yes. I think we want to keep the project
[00:02:49] Non-specific, but the generalization of the scope. I think we should talk details. Yeah, so I
[00:02:56] Probably the best way to describe the overall scope is wireless sensors for data analytics and monitoring of
[00:03:05] Specific conditions of the landscape correct so not control of
[00:03:11] Irrigation we're leaving that to the traditional branded manufacturers to command and control the irrigation
[00:03:18] We are providing the client with the we are revealing to the client insights on the system that they weren't able to see before
[00:03:28] using wireless
[00:03:30] sensors and
[00:03:31] A platform with a dashboard
[00:03:34] So they can see the vital signs of
[00:03:37] The water infrastructure and in some of the things that we identified
[00:03:41] Prior to the start of the project when we got there was
[00:03:45] that there was very
[00:03:47] low water pressure
[00:03:50] Upon the rooftop where we're going to be deploying the system
[00:03:53] But also there was no
[00:03:56] Water meters there was no pressure gauges the client had no idea the performance of the system until we provided them with the insight
[00:04:06] And so you've heard Paul say the rooftop for this particular project 90% of the project is
[00:04:12] on a very large
[00:04:14] Green rooftop so that's probably that we could frame it around that. This is a large green rooftop project
[00:04:20] That historically had been overwaters
[00:04:24] And that's the reason why the client brought us in because there was some struggling of the landscape struggling of the green roof and
[00:04:32] The client really wanted more insight into number one
[00:04:36] the irrigation system and how it's functioning and operational and then number two
[00:04:42] You know how the weather
[00:04:44] affected the movement of this moisture of the soil through the green roof profile
[00:04:49] mm-hmm and
[00:04:51] From what we've learned through our client is that green roofs can sustain dry conditions
[00:04:57] So they number one need to know when the conditions are dry and
[00:05:01] Then once the condition is dry, they can maintain that level for a period of time
[00:05:07] So the client just really needs to know my hey my roof has been dry
[00:05:13] How long has it been dry if it has been dry for x period of time now it is time to water
[00:05:19] But not to water
[00:05:20] Moment is dry because it can sustain a period of time at the dry threshold
[00:05:28] Well one of the things that we learned too was the reason the client brought us in because they
[00:05:33] They assessed this roof and it wasn't a rooftop garden that they installed
[00:05:38] But they were brought in as the expert and professional and
[00:05:42] The thing that they determined was the reason why the roof was failing is because
[00:05:48] The irrigation system was watering it way too often. It's leaching out all of the nutrients and now when the nutrients are gone
[00:05:56] The it brings it breeds weeds and insects and saturation
[00:06:02] So our client was brought in to to bring a rooftop back and
[00:06:07] In one way that they wanted to make sure of is that the roof didn't get over irrigated again
[00:06:12] so let's let's share a little bit about the the types of data that we're collecting and
[00:06:17] How we're collecting it?
[00:06:19] Well, you know one of the things to end is you know we came in
[00:06:22] We're brought in by this particular client to redo
[00:06:26] The existing sort of monitoring system that they initially deployed because it wasn't working and
[00:06:33] That system was a wired
[00:06:36] Soil moisture wired weather wired this wire that so there's wires all over this roof that were either exposed or
[00:06:44] Getting rained on and the devices were failing
[00:06:49] So we were we were asked to come up with a solution that was a little easier to monitor and manage
[00:06:54] But it didn't have all these wires running all over place
[00:06:58] Mm-hmm. So we started with the sort of the
[00:07:02] We the heart of the wireless system is is a gateway and we had
[00:07:07] We installed a gateway on the rooftop
[00:07:13] Solar powered battery so there's no wires running to
[00:07:17] This particular gateway and the gateway that we set up has the ability to communicate with
[00:07:23] All of the wireless devices not only on the rooftop but throughout the entire building and throughout the entire landscape
[00:07:29] We now have an access point
[00:07:33] Essentially to anything the client would like to measure and monitor
[00:07:37] at any time in the future
[00:07:39] That's right. It gives us a springboard into
[00:07:42] The client being able to look at other devices and other systems with insight that we can pipe in that data
[00:07:49] into through our hub and
[00:07:51] Then bring it into an application where they can visualize any of this information
[00:07:56] mm-hmm and then of course we installed numerous wireless soil moisture sensors, but then
[00:08:03] On the actual water infrastructure. There's two
[00:08:06] Water sources neither of them had meters at all or or flow sensors and
[00:08:13] We installed two
[00:08:15] Water meters with an analog
[00:08:19] display
[00:08:21] and a digital output attached to the wireless data logger and
[00:08:25] Then we put pressure transducers on the backflow which we're gonna talk more
[00:08:30] about in the future so that both water sources have pressure monitoring and
[00:08:37] flow monitoring and
[00:08:39] What did we notice when you fired up the system for the first time here? We are it's what April 11th
[00:08:46] First week of April turned on the system for the first time
[00:08:51] Well, one of the things the client wanted us to do is sort of map out the existing irrigation system
[00:08:56] And then when we were doing the management, we wanted to put sensors in zones and we can kind of see how the zones flow
[00:09:03] But the first thing we did where we turned on
[00:09:05] The system we were looking through the meter and the meter was spinning
[00:09:10] Maximum flow rate because it was just a small one inch service to the section of the roof
[00:09:15] it was
[00:09:17] Peeking out at 15 gallons a minute and we were walking around trying to figure what was going on and then because it's on a rooftop
[00:09:24] You know, there's drains that have access points and where the water didn't really surface
[00:09:32] We were we were listening to some of the roof drains and water was flowing directly into the roof drains
[00:09:37] So the first thing to me was we must have a break or a leak somewhere because the leaks just instead of its surfacing
[00:09:43] It's going down hitting the
[00:09:45] Membrane and then blowing over to the drain and that's exactly what we saw and found
[00:09:51] Was that there was a mainline break in the piping system in the network and we identified it as a frozen
[00:09:58] Pipe they didn't winterize this and we can't determine when the break had occurred
[00:10:03] It could have been there and last year's entire watering season or it could have been there for the past five years of
[00:10:10] Watering the facilities manager is not responsible for the water bill doesn't have any of the water bills the system
[00:10:17] Did not have a meter on it and if you're up on the roof walking around you may never know
[00:10:22] No idea. I mean, but luckily for us we're trained to hear and listen and see
[00:10:27] So we identified the leak right away. We let the facilities director know they brought in the irrigation contractor
[00:10:32] And hopefully they're gonna start finding a way to repair
[00:10:35] That's a good reminder that if you if possible to install a water
[00:10:41] meter
[00:10:43] With a digital output versus just a flow sensor
[00:10:46] Because the meter has the dials on it on the register so you can see water flowing through the pipe
[00:10:53] Even if it's not connected to any
[00:10:55] Logger any controller anything digital you just look at the meter and if the dials are spinning
[00:11:00] You have a leak and there's something really powerful about that in the field knowing that
[00:11:06] you can visually
[00:11:08] Assess the system
[00:11:11] You don't have to wonder is my irrigation controller registering this flow correctly because I think that if
[00:11:18] That had if we installed just a paddle wheel flow sensor and we had hooked it up to a controller our first thought may have been
[00:11:25] There's got to be something wrong with the controller or this flow sensor
[00:11:29] It says it's running 15 gallons a minute if it was just digital we may have questioned
[00:11:34] that
[00:11:35] Data point but because it was a mechanical register. We never questioned it. We knew right away that
[00:11:42] It was water running through at that rate
[00:11:45] And the beauty of that device is that we've learned over the years
[00:11:49] You know why why those things are valuable because again you can't see what's in the pipe
[00:11:54] This is just showing you or giving you eyes into the water and it allows the building manager if they have pms
[00:12:02] preventive maintenance
[00:12:03] Schedules where the guys their gals go around the building and they have to check certain things every day
[00:12:08] A lot of times they can to put that on their p.m. Schedule and they can write that down
[00:12:12] Yeah, and they can bring it back every day and look at it going oh my gosh
[00:12:14] How much water did we use yesterday over today and then tomorrow?
[00:12:19] And I made a note here the other night water is heated
[00:12:22] You know that's one of the challenges that we face on all water inside and outside is that it's in a pipe
[00:12:28] And you cannot see it
[00:12:30] You can see it when it comes out of the sprinkler or if you have a leak outside that's surfacing
[00:12:34] You can see it outside of that water is hidden
[00:12:38] and especially on these these rooftop gardens where the
[00:12:43] Soils porous
[00:12:45] It's so hard to see leaks
[00:12:48] Especially if you got a drip system like the one that they had up there
[00:12:50] You can't you turn on a zone head zone pop up
[00:12:53] Everything goes down and the water the the soils porous
[00:12:58] So the first thing you need to do is you got to go to the drains
[00:13:00] And you got to look at the drains and see if you get water flowing down
[00:13:03] I mean that's the first thing we did we went to the drains
[00:13:05] We saw massive amount of flow and then we started looking for where potentially there was breaks
[00:13:10] Mm-hmm. Let's just share a little piece of some of the brain share that we had in regards to thinking about
[00:13:18] Irrigation systems and water infrastructure like the like the human body
[00:13:23] We've been should share a little bit of that. I think so. I think it's it's vital to share because we learn
[00:13:29] And then when we learn you want to be able to share with others some of the knowledge you gain
[00:13:33] and when you when you have something like a
[00:13:35] Pressure transducer that you can see remotely from anywhere in the world
[00:13:39] You now have a visual into the performance of the pipe for the water and the pipe
[00:13:44] You didn't have before all of a sudden there's a tool and you can use the tool to assess the health of
[00:13:51] The system much like you can check your blood pressure
[00:13:57] When you go in to the doctor the first thing they're gonna do is start with the blood pressure
[00:14:02] That might actually explain
[00:14:04] Some of the other symptoms that somebody may be having. That's right. That's right exactly
[00:14:08] So what we really come up with our brain share is you know
[00:14:12] What are the key elements or the vital signs of?
[00:14:15] The irrigation system that we need to diagnose initially when you first get to a property
[00:14:22] Similar to when you walk into a doctor, what is it a doctor doing? You're checking your vital signs
[00:14:27] So I think that a lot of contractors likely when they get to a job site for the first time
[00:14:33] They pick up a new project for the first time they go to the controller
[00:14:38] First show me the controller, but really that's not the place you should start
[00:14:44] You need to start at the water supply at the water supply
[00:14:48] And not not just at the the irrigation supply and this is just my belief
[00:14:53] I think you need to know the main supply services the building
[00:14:57] So you understand where the heart is right of the water system
[00:15:02] Does does that system have a booster pump on it is it just city water is it well water?
[00:15:07] I mean what is creating the pressure that you need to sort of analyze when you get to the property?
[00:15:14] Because you know we're gonna talk a little bit during this discussion, but you know
[00:15:18] We uncovered a lot of different things like just checking the pressure of
[00:15:23] The system because you can't see pressure when you look at a pipe. You simply see the pipe
[00:15:29] You don't know what pressure it or you turn on sprinkler head and you go about and step on you know
[00:15:33] No, this is what I only tell when it's very low or very high
[00:15:38] But it's very hard to tell the in between right? You know when it's not working on the extremes
[00:15:45] You can see mist and you can see the sprinkler
[00:15:48] Barely popping up but everything in between that you can't really tell if it's 40 psi or 62 psi
[00:15:56] So the first thing that we identified when we started looking at the system was
[00:16:00] The static pressure was 30 pounds when we got to the facility right away to me
[00:16:06] I'm like wow this is pretty low water pressure
[00:16:09] For operational of a pretty large irrigation roof touch it when you got only a one inch pipe running out
[00:16:15] To the roof and if they're decent sized zones, I mean not a lot of pressure
[00:16:19] What do you think that roof size there was that was about an acre?
[00:16:23] Would you set say I would say yeah about
[00:16:27] 50,000 yeah square feet probably pretty big groove. Yeah 24 zones of irrigation at rooftop. That's no joke
[00:16:34] So it's a lot of water
[00:16:37] Coming out of a little tiny pipe and it would be it would not be likely
[00:16:42] For someone to design a system the way that it the way that it was when we saw it with that low pressure
[00:16:48] Nobody would design a system like we saw with only 30 pounds of pressure
[00:16:53] Coming in right so it wasn't until a few moments
[00:16:58] It wasn't till the moment that we saw and youth you caught this the heart of the system the main water supply
[00:17:06] Yeah, what we did was we asked the the facilities manager to
[00:17:10] Just walk us to where the main water supply comes into the facility so we can at least understand
[00:17:16] What do they have a meter on it?
[00:17:17] Where's the service coming in from and then we saw the pressure on the upstream side from the municipality in the downstream side of
[00:17:25] The back low we saw it was 70 psi coming in
[00:17:29] 60 on the other side of the back low
[00:17:31] But ironically I asked and they did have a booster pump on the network and
[00:17:38] It was just and the guy said the guy goes yeah, it cycles a lot. It comes on and off
[00:17:44] Frequently all day long right as if it was supposed to do that
[00:17:49] That's what he thought and then the initial I looked at it
[00:17:52] And I looked at the pumps and I heard the pumps whining and I looked at the pressure gauges
[00:17:57] And I'm like we got 60 pounds coming in and we got 60 pounds going out of the booster pump
[00:18:04] And it's sitting there cycling
[00:18:07] So the first thing I said is this thing's not working
[00:18:10] But you can see it cycling, but it's not increasing the pressure whatsoever and
[00:18:16] It was it was really eye-opening to the facilities guy was like ah
[00:18:20] We had no idea that my pumps were not working. They're steady moving and turning and burning energy, but they're not producing pressure
[00:18:29] Subsequently is why the rooftop who had such low pressure because it was probably designed at
[00:18:35] 60 psi
[00:18:37] But the booster pump stopped however long ago and now we only have 30 pounds and now the irrigation on the rooftop
[00:18:44] It's not functioning as it should be so just having the either documenting pressure with a manual just pressure gauge
[00:18:51] Which is what most people should do right now because that's the tool that happens to be readily available
[00:18:58] However, I don't think a lot of people do that pick up a new site
[00:19:01] Do you do they really go to the back flow put a pressure gauge on it and see what the system pressure is at the beginning of
[00:19:08] There before they take over maintenance on it. I probably don't do that
[00:19:12] I mean, I don't even know document that like the integrity of the solenoids Navy
[00:19:16] Are they are they open as it's short? Is it working to all the zones come on?
[00:19:20] But do they do do people really go and start at the source so that they can
[00:19:24] Document the condition so if something changes later
[00:19:27] They know what it was when they picked up the maintenance because the system could be working fine
[00:19:31] It could be 65 psi right it down that the system stops working later
[00:19:36] Then you can take your reading. So well, it was 65 and we took it over now. You're only getting 40
[00:19:41] I would we haven't done anything. We just got to get the pressure back up
[00:19:43] And we've had this discussion you and I in the past about
[00:19:46] You know since we've been in the irrigation industry, you know, I'm at 35 years now this year
[00:19:51] Yes, 35th year and you've been doing it for 20 and I've been on systems and
[00:19:57] managing them for maybe 10 or 15 years and and I've seen the pressure decrease on these systems over the years where
[00:20:05] Systems that we designed or maintained
[00:20:08] 10 15 years ago the pressure is now 20 to 30 pounds lower than it was when we installed it because the municipality has reduced
[00:20:17] The pressure servicing that because of their water infrastructure is struggling
[00:20:21] So to keep breaks from occurring they lower the pressure at the pump station
[00:20:27] And that the pressure I've got just looking at my notes here
[00:20:30] We were thinking that pressure does a good job of making the correlation to flow
[00:20:36] Helping to answer the question. Why is flow higher?
[00:20:39] Or why is flow lower if the flow is higher by 15%?
[00:20:45] But you could also look at what the pressure is that would help make a correlation
[00:20:50] To why a high-flow alert occurred when it's not a break at all. It was just an increase in pressure
[00:20:58] Well, especially if you have an advanced control system that you've done learn flows and you know what the flows are on a specific zone
[00:21:05] Right, so that's where the algorithms in the programming say yeah
[00:21:08] We know we've established 50 gallons a minute on zone one and that's what we should keep it within
[00:21:14] But if the pressure goes up
[00:21:17] 10 psi that normal 50 gallons a minute could be 55 now
[00:21:22] And they're like well, why did it increase or the next day or two?
[00:21:26] Pressure could drop 10 psi lower and now we're at 45 gallons a minute
[00:21:31] And you're getting these alert conditions coming into your system and you're like what the heck is going on?
[00:21:36] Why is my flow at 45 one day and 55 the next but it's set at 50
[00:21:42] Yeah, it reinforces the conversation that we had a couple episodes ago about
[00:21:48] Without pressure and would you would you rather have?
[00:21:53] pressure
[00:21:55] visible remotely or flow visible remotely and
[00:22:00] This reinforces the the power of pressure
[00:22:04] Helping to determine the correlation of what is happening on the irrigation system
[00:22:09] And the importance that just having a simple remote pressure monitor can provide
[00:22:15] To a maintenance contractor where the flow of water
[00:22:19] does matter but
[00:22:22] Pressure can can react faster
[00:22:25] Than flow because if you have a break
[00:22:29] The pressure will drop immediately and you can be notified immediately
[00:22:34] There was a sudden drop in pressure, right? If there was a 20
[00:22:38] PSI drop in pressure you want to know right away something's up
[00:22:42] Especially if it doesn't recover
[00:22:44] Well to the beauty of being able to monitor pressure like you would flow if you establish
[00:22:49] on a control system on zone one the flows at 50 gallons a minute and the pressure is that
[00:22:57] 47 psi
[00:22:59] You can you can really dial in the monitoring but on that same zone if if a head broke
[00:23:08] and
[00:23:09] Now it's at
[00:23:11] 60 gallons a minute at 30 psi
[00:23:14] I mean that's a quick indication at that point that you know there's a leak somewhere you can identify it in
[00:23:21] Both correlations, but if you don't have flow, but you do have pressure
[00:23:26] And you can correlate. Oh my pressure was 45 psi on that zone, but now it's 30. I
[00:23:34] Can pretty much to determine that there's a break
[00:23:38] So what do you think now that we've wrapped up the installation part of that project and most of it?
[00:23:45] What do you think are like a couple of your
[00:23:47] aha takeaways
[00:23:49] That are in your mind
[00:23:52] Well, you know I've been doing this a long time and we just really haven't had the tools
[00:23:57] In the past to be able to effectively monitor pressure
[00:24:02] where
[00:24:03] In the past I'd have to put a data log on
[00:24:05] And that data log is monitoring pressure then you got to get the data and you got to bring it back and you got to
[00:24:11] Sort it and clean it and look at it and then oh, then I got to overlay it on flow
[00:24:16] The aha moment for me now is being able to actually
[00:24:21] overlay digital flow with digital pressure
[00:24:25] and determine really really well
[00:24:29] the
[00:24:30] effectiveness of the water flowing through a lot of the water flowing through a lot of the water flowing through a lot of the
[00:24:35] water flowing through a pipe and
[00:24:36] That zone
[00:24:38] Specifically again like we talked about it's the vital signs right so the correlation to
[00:24:45] The flow and the pressure which again just like in a doctor
[00:24:50] What's your blood pressure? Mm-hmm? What's your water pressure? Mm-hmm?
[00:24:54] What's your pulse rate? It will what you can explain so much as a reason they take it first
[00:25:00] So
[00:25:02] Now we're I mean we're gonna tie that back into an irrigation system and you know
[00:25:07] Let's check the vital signs and the vital sign should be
[00:25:11] Pressure number one flow number two when we're looking at
[00:25:16] Yeah, and there's a difference between a flow
[00:25:19] Sensor or monitor being used to
[00:25:23] Count and totalize the volume over time. That's a different data point than the gallons per minute. That's right
[00:25:33] And then that is another thing that we learn of course, you know luckily for us we're learning every day
[00:25:39] And I've been doing this 35 years and you can learn something almost every day
[00:25:42] Especially if you're open to to learning but you're right
[00:25:45] It's it's critical sometimes and what's your gallons per minute?
[00:25:49] Just so you have a baseline to understand what that zone is operating so we I think we were
[00:25:56] We were making the
[00:25:58] Correlation that the gallons per minute the GPM is much like the heart rate
[00:26:04] Right your heart rate. It beats that the beats per minute is like gallons per minute because it's actually it's it's a
[00:26:12] I don't know speed is the right word, but let's just call it a rate
[00:26:16] versus the total consumption
[00:26:19] Is a volume of water over time over time and so is the GPM
[00:26:24] But the GPM is actually a rate just like your heart has it as a ray
[00:26:29] You could be at resting rate 55 beats per minute when you're sleeping
[00:26:33] And if you're heavily working out at your peak, you could be at 180 beats try it
[00:26:38] The volume of blood that flows through is a different a different number than the rate than the heart rate
[00:26:44] And so we have you know blood pressure and
[00:26:47] heart rates
[00:26:49] And we have PSI on a system and we have gallons per minute
[00:26:54] And so I think we that's kind of what we where our mind went is that the gallons per minute was a lot like the beats per minute
[00:27:02] In the body, that's right, and it really helps us see a little clearer the
[00:27:07] The true vital signs of an irrigation system when you're looking at it
[00:27:11] What should you look at first and second and third when you're diagnosing
[00:27:15] And the operation of an irrigation system
[00:27:20] I'm excited to put this together and continue to watch look at the data remotely and
[00:27:26] Try to understand what it's telling us and what should the alarms be right all the time and
[00:27:32] You know the what the decision thing about looking at pressure
[00:27:35] Lobbed over time is that we'll be able to see does it actually stay relatively flat or are there natural?
[00:27:45] Patterns in the pressure in a particular building based on the behavior of that building, you know, is there gonna be a natural daily
[00:27:54] Spike and pressure or decrease in pressure or is it good is there gonna be weekly patterns
[00:28:00] Well, especially to if you have a facility that is served by the municipality only and you don't have a booster pump inside of the building
[00:28:10] You know for us in that particular facility. We've learned that there was a booster pump there
[00:28:15] But clearly it wasn't functioning properly. So they were just getting city water coming in
[00:28:20] I think if once they fix the pump and they get the pump and we're gonna see a steady pressure
[00:28:26] Right hopefully because the booster pump with the VFD should sustain a pressure in the facility
[00:28:33] Where if you got domestic water coming into a home or a commercial building, you're gonna see
[00:28:38] fluctuations because the municipality
[00:28:41] Will increase their pumps to provide
[00:28:44] Additional pressure especially in an area where it's heavily irrigated where they gotta all the irrigation systems are starting to fire up and they lose
[00:28:53] Pressure in their network. They got to get the pumps back up so they can sustain the pressure within the network
[00:28:57] And I think you've seen it in your in your lab, and I see it in my lab. I mean the pressure
[00:29:05] Varies and then you can start seeing patterns when the miss Pally starts to turn on pumps
[00:29:11] Because the pressure could be at a 55 and then you're like, oh it went up to 70 at
[00:29:15] 9 o'clock at night
[00:29:16] And that's when they kick the pumps on or their extra pump to create extra pressure
[00:29:21] So if we only if you only have one pressure gauge pressure sensor on the system
[00:29:26] You actually it could be if let's just say for instance the pressure drops
[00:29:31] What we don't know is why
[00:29:35] Completely if we out if we have flow data that'll help answer
[00:29:37] But if we only have pressure we don't know whether it was simply the city pressure dropping or whether it was the
[00:29:44] Irrigation pipe that broke and the pressure dropping, but if we were to take the
[00:29:50] At the very end of the main line I'm just kind of spitballing here
[00:29:55] Where the wherever the main line ends the furthest point away from the source
[00:30:01] That you put the other pressures into there. So we're always looking at two
[00:30:05] data points
[00:30:06] Because those two data points should always be in relationship to each other because it's the same piece of pipe
[00:30:12] So if it's down from the city, it'll be down at the source and down at the end
[00:30:16] But if there's a difference between the start in the end
[00:30:19] The delta between those two that now would help diagnose. Oh the problem is on the irrigation system
[00:30:24] We got a problem here, and it's not maintaining pressure
[00:30:29] And then you know time view two points the beauty of these now these wireless
[00:30:33] Pressure sensors that you can put in you can just drop them into a bow box
[00:30:38] You can put one on the test port of a backflow
[00:30:41] And then you can put one on a quick coupler if you had one in the system
[00:30:45] And then you can look at your pressure at your beginning of your main
[00:30:48] And you can look at the pressure at the end of your main and what is the difference between the two especially if you're
[00:30:54] Designer console. Yeah. Yeah, I think as we develop this we need to have
[00:30:58] Just thinking through this we need to we do have two pressures. That's really in the same
[00:31:03] Display in the software where you have to the beginning in the end
[00:31:07] And and then you can have the learn delta between the two then you can set alarms up
[00:31:13] Based on their pressure Delta between the start in the end
[00:31:16] And then you can too also tell if you're taking over system
[00:31:21] How this system was designed initially
[00:31:24] And if there's a greater Delta between the POC of
[00:31:29] Over time, you know that or you know that roots are getting into this or something's happening
[00:31:33] They could have added, you know a couple zones to the system
[00:31:36] They could have added a few more heads to a zone that now drops the pressure when the system runs
[00:31:41] I mean, there's a lot of things that you can now
[00:31:44] Diagnose where you didn't have the ability to do in the past right and it's still not readily available today
[00:31:50] But hopefully we'll be able to bring something to market here
[00:31:53] That is will be a very useful tool very simple tool useful tool affordable tool that future businesses cannot live without
[00:32:01] Cannot do business without I agree and we can see it's versioning
[00:32:04] You know even in our work that we're doing very good man
[00:32:07] I wish we you know, we're we're talking a little bit on the download because we're sitting here in a public club
[00:32:12] So we're not getting as enthusiastic as we normally are very those that are listening understand it
[00:32:18] We're not usually this mellow and
[00:32:21] Stoic when when we're talking about fun shit like this
[00:32:25] So appreciate everybody's patience and hopefully some of the information that was shared with you is helpful
[00:32:31] And we can create a sense of wonder and curiosity that you can carry into
[00:32:36] Into your own business and I guess, you know my my think my biggest takeaway is to always check the pressure
[00:32:44] On a system in as many places as possible
[00:32:47] While the system is running so you can get a really good understanding of what's happening and document it and there are tools out
[00:32:54] There they're pretty cost-effective now whether they're just you know wireless Bluetooth
[00:32:57] Where you can put and log it and then go with your phone and pull the data off or some of the devices
[00:33:03] We're testing now that you have wireless
[00:33:06] Pressure sensors that feed into a platform where you can track and trend it over time
[00:33:11] So that's really what I'm excited about is these new tools that we have to diagnose the vital signs of the irrigation
[00:33:18] Yeah, and when Paul and I are in a position where we can share more about this project
[00:33:21] We certainly will this this happens to be a
[00:33:25] Project that we were consulted with and hired for but it's also always it's always a lab experiment
[00:33:33] The whole life that we live is a lab experiment. There's a lab experiment
[00:33:38] Absolutely our brother great week
[00:33:41] Thanks for the brain share here in the sky club and
[00:33:45] Can't wait for our next adventure
[00:33:48] Ditto can't wait a joy working with you awesome. Appreciate you guys. Thank you for listening to another
[00:33:54] Exciting episode of the spring thinner show. We'll see you next week. Ciao. Ciao. Good job, brother always